Today I sat through a MS Vista certification class to complete my MCSE in Phoenix, AZ and I must say that the review you posted is quite flawed and doesn’t look at the great capabilities of Vista. Prime Example: built in shadow copy in the operating system that allows you revert ANY file to any previous date (and you can specify how long you would like to keep these shadow copies). Does any other operating system you know of (or any platform) have this built in to the OS besides a server strength one (example: SBS 2k3)?
That’s one thing that M$ will always have over the market, they have designed a product that is capable of large deployments that has the administrator in mind. That’s something any other operating system is never going to do, or even do well IMO… at least not in the next 30 years.
Some other points of key interest that Vista offers that no other platform offers now:
1. Readyboost – simply add a thumbdrive to your computer (say it’s a 2GB jumpdrive) and you automatically have added 2GB of RAM to your computer.
2. Experience Rating – gives a scale from 1.0 to 5.0 that will analyze your computer to give you a rating of performance your computer will experience with computers. This will give manufacturers of computers to ability to list this raiting when selling a computer in the future, and puts more power in the buyer.
3. Command line function security – you can set security permissions for command line functions
4. Pen & input devices – now your stylus or pen or whatever will auto-load if you are using a tablet PC or writeable monitor or touchscreen. Nothing else required.
5. Bitlocker – drive encryption that can encrypt the entire drive (remember this feature is built in and it’s not 3rd party software) that requires you to have a TBM key or USB drive in order for you to unlock the computer. Example where it’s good? Your computer is stolen and it is completely useless unless they have the TBM key or a usb drive.
6. Defrag – now runs automatically and intuitively when it detects that it needs to, and only when disk use is low, making disk life last longer.
7. Reliability monitor – graphs events and event ID’s in a graph format with a line graph showing performace and most importantly, reliability.
8. Network & Sharing – now there is a “visio” view of sorts that shows all network topology and allows you to create connections with other computers on your network and view their shares. No more UNC pathnames if you don’t want to use them, because this gives you a nice pretty picture.
Sorry to say this, but the guy who wrote the review doesn’t even know where to begin when doing a Vista review and IMO and hasn’t even used the great functions of it, and well… is an idiot.
1. Readyboost – I can’t see this working very well. The path to write to the usb stick rather than the ram is much farther, and I can’t see this being done well at all. Probably all that it does is move part of the page file to the usb stick; in any case if you really want to see performance you should move it to a second hard drive.
2. Experience Rating – I don’t see any benefit to the customer. That and I don’t see how a computer manufactures can use this data. Also I remember a lot of people being up in arms about programs like this that “call home,” I foresee a patch in the future that disables this.
3. Command line function security – Windows finally joins the party.
4. Pen & input devices – Not only does OSX do this, but you don’t need to install drivers for a varity of peripherals (ie Camera, Camcorders, printers, ect).
5. Bitlocker – This is cool, up until you loose you USB stick or the person who stole your computer reformats the hard drive. Apple might already do this with keychain.
6. Defrag – OSX does this.
7. Reliability monitor – I guess that this would be helpful to system admins. (But if it is windows, I don’t see the reliability going very high above Zero. lol)
8. Network & Sharing – I can see this being helpful to a network administrator, but not the average user. Plus there are programs like nmap that network admins use.
Shadow Copy – OSX Leopard does this. It is called Time Machine.
I just don’t see Vista living up to the hype. I can see how some of these tools are build with the system admin in mind, but I still think that it is a far from what microsoft wants people to believe. The only thing that it had going for it was WinFS and they dropped it.
It looks like most of the things that you listed above require the more expensive versions of Vista (ie Ultimate), I don’t see a lot of people shelling out the money for that version.
1. What you’re talking about is Virtual memory, not readyboost.
2. I don’t see how empowering an ignorant customer with the ability to make a concrete decision that and eMachine rates lower than a Dell is not going to make an impact. There are a lot of stupid end users out there and the way the rating scale works in Vista is that it’s final rating is not an average, but rather the rating is determined by the lowest grade component in the computer. That way you can’t soup up the processor and leave the memory to shiz.
3. Vista isn’t “joining the party”. You mis-interpret. Vista allows you restrict use of all commands even into a PE environment.
4. Neither will you in Vista.
5. The purpose isn’t to prevent someone from stealing your computer. It’s to prevent someone for capturing your data once they steal your computer. And if you’re too big of an idiot to lose your USB stick or TSB code, then don’t use it.
6. OSX defrags with… wait for it…. another addon!
7. Very useful even to the end user. It can let them know the date something might have been going wrong and the exact action they might have done to cause it.
8. To the end user, no more navigating UNC pathnames or “neighborhoods”. It’s all right there on a topographical map.
9. Great. Go spend $4k on a mac.
And as far as the the features I listed? They’re all available on Home basic edition (the cheapest) except for tablet support.
Oh and who can beat the fact that my xbox360 has now become more powerful than any multimedia center ever… wirelessly.
I may seem biased, but it’s only because I’ve done the Vista Certification from MicroSoft and I’m educated on some of the greats and flaws of this OS.
Can you play on the fence now about all this and list some of the flaws that you have seen? Or just some things that you would have liked MS to have done better?
My own, personal perception of this (hardware related)…and I think this will relate to a lot of other end-users as well:
The base system requirements are ridiculous. Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t it require at a bare minimum a ridiculous amount of RAM?
Well, I guess that’s the biggie for me, that and v-card power….
…as much as I bitch about my comp being old, there are SHIT loads of people out there with far more ancient architecture out there than this piece of shit on my right.
It’s going to already boil down to having to buy another system. 4K for a new Mac? I doubt it, unless you’re referring to the latest, top-of-the-line shit. Same could be argued for the latest PC.
A friend of mine over here is a die-hard Mac fan and has been trying to sell me over to them for the last 2 years. I tire of it and will put off this a decision until it has to be made. But I’ve noticed a glaring weakness about her that has raised my brow, per se (and this doesn’t necessarily reflect all Mac users *cough* Tyler *cough*):
she knows know JACK SHIT about what computers are about.
“Turning off” a program?…what’s that? She just shuts her Powerbook and reopens it.
“backing up” data? wtf is that? “I just got a new Powerbook and lost my entire mp3 collection.
….it goes beyond this. But it’s made me question this: You cannot deny the many conveniences that a Mac has to offer, but is it worth the cost of ignorance? I think her own [ignorance] is dangerous.
I’ve wondered in, out, and around the point here. I really don’t know what side I’m on about Mac vs. Vista, but because of its demands, I’m going to have to wait this out for another year or two and get a complete overhaul anyways.
I think it touches on why I love Linux, yet never realized it until seeing it in text. For the record, I don’t like using Linux unless I have to anymore…or if I feel like going on an IRC binge. I love “idling” on Linux, but in Window’s defense, it does everything that I need right now.
back to Linux….
…my appeal is the social implications that it reflects. There are no worries about piracy, or illegal sharing (is that being redundant?). The entire idea of linux and/or freeware begins with the open source approach that everyone is ENCOURAGED to share and collaborate. Certainly, you can dog on the whole “ripping off from those who deserve credit”, but – as a whole – the open source community is getting much better about organization, and the idea that the reward comes from an entirely different, non-$ facet…and it may be different for every individual.
I think it’s a healthy representation of what many arts should be about: getting together, sharing ideas, spurring creativity, and spawning productivity.
all-together now: aaaaawwwwwwww
Having said all that, the linux gaming community licks a big, ugly, donkey chode and is light years away from Windows.
If could make some kind of hybrid OS, I would create a computer system with the corporate support of MS, the open-source ideology of Linux, and the wonderful ease-of-use and cleanliness of a Mac OS. I say all that knowing that it will never happen.
Who cares? You guys take these things all too personally. Obviously, you will use and defend your particular operating system. In my opinion, tyler pretty much posted this to get a rise out of john… ’cause yall are all big nerds, and yall have nothing better to argue about. no offense, by the way, nerds are sexy. Stop playing “yo OS is so whack, you have to buy all new peripherals.” Although it seems fun at the moment, you are all just separating yourselves further from acknowledging that another system is great for it’s particular purpose. It’s pretty much political at this point. And, we all need to realize something… you will never change each others’ minds.
I have a mac, and I’m excited about Vista…
I am especially excited for those who can afford to run it the way they advertise… haha, just kidding john!
Those videos, although quite hilarious are taken completely out of context when said to be “copying OSX”.
I look at it from a different perspective. Sure, M$ is copying technology, no doubt about it… but why are they doing so? They aren’t making some of these features the core of their operating system; rather they are including them into the OS so that people who might be swayed by the new-hotness of a owning a MAC can make the transition to a Vista seamlessly.
I’m not one to argue if a Mac or a PC is better… it’s like getting in a fight for Ford vs. Chevy. No one is ever going to win. All I’m saying is don’t beat up on the smart kid in school just because he’s found a way for everyone to pay him to do their homework.
I’m a fan of Vista because of it’s administrator capability case in point.
oh and tript, I have 2 copies of Vista running, the one I tested it on and fell in love with is the Green Monster that I built while we were in the apt together. Matter of fact i ripped out a stick of ram and was running it at 512mb ram and aero was as smooth as ever because of my video card.
They SAY use 1gb-2gb but I ran Vista with a score of 2.9 out of 5 on my 4 year old home PC because I have a 256mb video card in there.
This is pretty sad. As a Mac owner for the past four years, I can testify that the flashy new gadgets Vista is trying to get us excited about are the same one’s I’ve considered standard (for Mac) for quite some time.
Microsoft obviously produces a decent product, I’m not going to debate that point. But beyond that, their company just seems to be stagnant and out of juice in terms of innovation and ambitious spirit in general that Apple is suffused with now.
Well, I’d have to say that the person that I agree with most in this discussion would be Katie… it’s not a big deal. Macs are decent machines, but Windows is pretty good too. The problem is this: If Macintosh operating systems ran 90% of the world’s computers, their shortcomings would become a lot more apparent. For instance, the only reason there aren’t as many security exploits for a Mac is not because Steve Jobs is a super-genius that coded an OS generations ahead of its time, but because no one wants to sit down and write an exploit for maybe two-dozen computers. They want their virus/worm/trojan to be seen all over the world, therefore they write for Windows. Exactly the same reason why the vast majority of software writers write Windows applications and games. And we all know how the free market works, therefore there is no arguing the myriad reasons why Windows completely dominates the market. I would imagine that’s why Mac switched over to using Intel processors, so that they could emulate some of the cool things that the PCs do. I am very disappointed that Vista didn’t give us the revolutionary new filesystem that it promised, but the only thing I really hate about Vista is that it now comes with DRM, which, funny enough, has been standard on Macs for a while now. I do wish I had a good alternative to Windows, but I have to say truthfully that one of my main interests in computers is that I like to play current video games, and if you want them to perform decently, you have to run them on their native OS. Oh, and I don’t like buying $2000 proprietary hardware when its PC equivelent would be half as much.
Today I sat through a MS Vista certification class to complete my MCSE in Phoenix, AZ and I must say that the review you posted is quite flawed and doesn’t look at the great capabilities of Vista. Prime Example: built in shadow copy in the operating system that allows you revert ANY file to any previous date (and you can specify how long you would like to keep these shadow copies). Does any other operating system you know of (or any platform) have this built in to the OS besides a server strength one (example: SBS 2k3)?
That’s one thing that M$ will always have over the market, they have designed a product that is capable of large deployments that has the administrator in mind. That’s something any other operating system is never going to do, or even do well IMO… at least not in the next 30 years.
Some other points of key interest that Vista offers that no other platform offers now:
1. Readyboost – simply add a thumbdrive to your computer (say it’s a 2GB jumpdrive) and you automatically have added 2GB of RAM to your computer.
2. Experience Rating – gives a scale from 1.0 to 5.0 that will analyze your computer to give you a rating of performance your computer will experience with computers. This will give manufacturers of computers to ability to list this raiting when selling a computer in the future, and puts more power in the buyer.
3. Command line function security – you can set security permissions for command line functions
4. Pen & input devices – now your stylus or pen or whatever will auto-load if you are using a tablet PC or writeable monitor or touchscreen. Nothing else required.
5. Bitlocker – drive encryption that can encrypt the entire drive (remember this feature is built in and it’s not 3rd party software) that requires you to have a TBM key or USB drive in order for you to unlock the computer. Example where it’s good? Your computer is stolen and it is completely useless unless they have the TBM key or a usb drive.
6. Defrag – now runs automatically and intuitively when it detects that it needs to, and only when disk use is low, making disk life last longer.
7. Reliability monitor – graphs events and event ID’s in a graph format with a line graph showing performace and most importantly, reliability.
8. Network & Sharing – now there is a “visio” view of sorts that shows all network topology and allows you to create connections with other computers on your network and view their shares. No more UNC pathnames if you don’t want to use them, because this gives you a nice pretty picture.
Sorry to say this, but the guy who wrote the review doesn’t even know where to begin when doing a Vista review and IMO and hasn’t even used the great functions of it, and well… is an idiot.
1. Readyboost – I can’t see this working very well. The path to write to the usb stick rather than the ram is much farther, and I can’t see this being done well at all. Probably all that it does is move part of the page file to the usb stick; in any case if you really want to see performance you should move it to a second hard drive.
2. Experience Rating – I don’t see any benefit to the customer. That and I don’t see how a computer manufactures can use this data. Also I remember a lot of people being up in arms about programs like this that “call home,” I foresee a patch in the future that disables this.
3. Command line function security – Windows finally joins the party.
4. Pen & input devices – Not only does OSX do this, but you don’t need to install drivers for a varity of peripherals (ie Camera, Camcorders, printers, ect).
5. Bitlocker – This is cool, up until you loose you USB stick or the person who stole your computer reformats the hard drive. Apple might already do this with keychain.
6. Defrag – OSX does this.
7. Reliability monitor – I guess that this would be helpful to system admins. (But if it is windows, I don’t see the reliability going very high above Zero. lol)
8. Network & Sharing – I can see this being helpful to a network administrator, but not the average user. Plus there are programs like nmap that network admins use.
Shadow Copy – OSX Leopard does this. It is called Time Machine.
I just don’t see Vista living up to the hype. I can see how some of these tools are build with the system admin in mind, but I still think that it is a far from what microsoft wants people to believe. The only thing that it had going for it was WinFS and they dropped it.
It looks like most of the things that you listed above require the more expensive versions of Vista (ie Ultimate), I don’t see a lot of people shelling out the money for that version.
Vista Footnotes
In response:
1. What you’re talking about is Virtual memory, not readyboost.
2. I don’t see how empowering an ignorant customer with the ability to make a concrete decision that and eMachine rates lower than a Dell is not going to make an impact. There are a lot of stupid end users out there and the way the rating scale works in Vista is that it’s final rating is not an average, but rather the rating is determined by the lowest grade component in the computer. That way you can’t soup up the processor and leave the memory to shiz.
3. Vista isn’t “joining the party”. You mis-interpret. Vista allows you restrict use of all commands even into a PE environment.
4. Neither will you in Vista.
5. The purpose isn’t to prevent someone from stealing your computer. It’s to prevent someone for capturing your data once they steal your computer. And if you’re too big of an idiot to lose your USB stick or TSB code, then don’t use it.
6. OSX defrags with… wait for it…. another addon!
7. Very useful even to the end user. It can let them know the date something might have been going wrong and the exact action they might have done to cause it.
8. To the end user, no more navigating UNC pathnames or “neighborhoods”. It’s all right there on a topographical map.
9. Great. Go spend $4k on a mac.
And as far as the the features I listed? They’re all available on Home basic edition (the cheapest) except for tablet support.
Oh and who can beat the fact that my xbox360 has now become more powerful than any multimedia center ever… wirelessly.
I may seem biased, but it’s only because I’ve done the Vista Certification from MicroSoft and I’m educated on some of the greats and flaws of this OS.
Can you play on the fence now about all this and list some of the flaws that you have seen? Or just some things that you would have liked MS to have done better?
My own, personal perception of this (hardware related)…and I think this will relate to a lot of other end-users as well:
The base system requirements are ridiculous. Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t it require at a bare minimum a ridiculous amount of RAM?
Well, I guess that’s the biggie for me, that and v-card power….
…as much as I bitch about my comp being old, there are SHIT loads of people out there with far more ancient architecture out there than this piece of shit on my right.
It’s going to already boil down to having to buy another system. 4K for a new Mac? I doubt it, unless you’re referring to the latest, top-of-the-line shit. Same could be argued for the latest PC.
A friend of mine over here is a die-hard Mac fan and has been trying to sell me over to them for the last 2 years. I tire of it and will put off this a decision until it has to be made. But I’ve noticed a glaring weakness about her that has raised my brow, per se (and this doesn’t necessarily reflect all Mac users *cough* Tyler *cough*):
she knows know JACK SHIT about what computers are about.
“Turning off” a program?…what’s that? She just shuts her Powerbook and reopens it.
“backing up” data? wtf is that? “I just got a new Powerbook and lost my entire mp3 collection.
….it goes beyond this. But it’s made me question this: You cannot deny the many conveniences that a Mac has to offer, but is it worth the cost of ignorance? I think her own [ignorance] is dangerous.
I’ve wondered in, out, and around the point here. I really don’t know what side I’m on about Mac vs. Vista, but because of its demands, I’m going to have to wait this out for another year or two and get a complete overhaul anyways.
Simple, short, yet to-the-point comparison article here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6309425.stm
I think it touches on why I love Linux, yet never realized it until seeing it in text. For the record, I don’t like using Linux unless I have to anymore…or if I feel like going on an IRC binge. I love “idling” on Linux, but in Window’s defense, it does everything that I need right now.
back to Linux….
…my appeal is the social implications that it reflects. There are no worries about piracy, or illegal sharing (is that being redundant?). The entire idea of linux and/or freeware begins with the open source approach that everyone is ENCOURAGED to share and collaborate. Certainly, you can dog on the whole “ripping off from those who deserve credit”, but – as a whole – the open source community is getting much better about organization, and the idea that the reward comes from an entirely different, non-$ facet…and it may be different for every individual.
I think it’s a healthy representation of what many arts should be about: getting together, sharing ideas, spurring creativity, and spawning productivity.
all-together now: aaaaawwwwwwww
Having said all that, the linux gaming community licks a big, ugly, donkey chode and is light years away from Windows.
If could make some kind of hybrid OS, I would create a computer system with the corporate support of MS, the open-source ideology of Linux, and the wonderful ease-of-use and cleanliness of a Mac OS. I say all that knowing that it will never happen.
Who cares? You guys take these things all too personally. Obviously, you will use and defend your particular operating system. In my opinion, tyler pretty much posted this to get a rise out of john… ’cause yall are all big nerds, and yall have nothing better to argue about. no offense, by the way, nerds are sexy. Stop playing “yo OS is so whack, you have to buy all new peripherals.” Although it seems fun at the moment, you are all just separating yourselves further from acknowledging that another system is great for it’s particular purpose. It’s pretty much political at this point. And, we all need to realize something… you will never change each others’ minds.
I have a mac, and I’m excited about Vista…
I am especially excited for those who can afford to run it the way they advertise… haha, just kidding john!
who’s taking it personally? We are nerds though; we love this kind of discussion.
Each OS does serve a purpose. And it is very much political. Perhaps moreso than we realize right now, and will only experience down the road.
miss ya’ll. are there going to be ski trip photos? I saw some through facebook…Middaaaaaw had some up. The more the merrier!
I have nothing better to do, what else am I supposed to do at work?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-2C2gb6ws8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkeC7HpsHxo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaIUkwPybtM
Those videos, although quite hilarious are taken completely out of context when said to be “copying OSX”.
I look at it from a different perspective. Sure, M$ is copying technology, no doubt about it… but why are they doing so? They aren’t making some of these features the core of their operating system; rather they are including them into the OS so that people who might be swayed by the new-hotness of a owning a MAC can make the transition to a Vista seamlessly.
I’m not one to argue if a Mac or a PC is better… it’s like getting in a fight for Ford vs. Chevy. No one is ever going to win. All I’m saying is don’t beat up on the smart kid in school just because he’s found a way for everyone to pay him to do their homework.
I’m a fan of Vista because of it’s administrator capability case in point.
oh and tript, I have 2 copies of Vista running, the one I tested it on and fell in love with is the Green Monster that I built while we were in the apt together. Matter of fact i ripped out a stick of ram and was running it at 512mb ram and aero was as smooth as ever because of my video card.
They SAY use 1gb-2gb but I ran Vista with a score of 2.9 out of 5 on my 4 year old home PC because I have a 256mb video card in there.
This is pretty sad. As a Mac owner for the past four years, I can testify that the flashy new gadgets Vista is trying to get us excited about are the same one’s I’ve considered standard (for Mac) for quite some time.
Microsoft obviously produces a decent product, I’m not going to debate that point. But beyond that, their company just seems to be stagnant and out of juice in terms of innovation and ambitious spirit in general that Apple is suffused with now.
Well, I’d have to say that the person that I agree with most in this discussion would be Katie… it’s not a big deal. Macs are decent machines, but Windows is pretty good too. The problem is this: If Macintosh operating systems ran 90% of the world’s computers, their shortcomings would become a lot more apparent. For instance, the only reason there aren’t as many security exploits for a Mac is not because Steve Jobs is a super-genius that coded an OS generations ahead of its time, but because no one wants to sit down and write an exploit for maybe two-dozen computers. They want their virus/worm/trojan to be seen all over the world, therefore they write for Windows. Exactly the same reason why the vast majority of software writers write Windows applications and games. And we all know how the free market works, therefore there is no arguing the myriad reasons why Windows completely dominates the market. I would imagine that’s why Mac switched over to using Intel processors, so that they could emulate some of the cool things that the PCs do. I am very disappointed that Vista didn’t give us the revolutionary new filesystem that it promised, but the only thing I really hate about Vista is that it now comes with DRM, which, funny enough, has been standard on Macs for a while now. I do wish I had a good alternative to Windows, but I have to say truthfully that one of my main interests in computers is that I like to play current video games, and if you want them to perform decently, you have to run them on their native OS. Oh, and I don’t like buying $2000 proprietary hardware when its PC equivelent would be half as much.